PSIA-AASI

Does anyone have good ideas on teaching on extremely steep terrain? I have taught a few friends some tricks using flex and extension to help them maintain speed or stop, but I would a like a more in depth description to be able to teach it professionally and correctly. Flexing as you travel across the fall line seems like a good way to maintain a higher speed, while extending seems to reduce speed. If anyone has thoughts on this feel free to post as I think this might be an interesting topic.

Swiat

Well, since no posts have showed up yet, i guess i will continue with my own concept. The application of pressure used on whatever terrain you traverse creates different effects. The steeper the terrain the more pressure is needed for control. To stop on a vertical wall, like a super pipe, you have to engage the edge fully at an angle that is completely perpendicular to the slope.

Swiat

The views expressed by Christopher “ICEBALLS” Swiat do not necessarily reflect those of the trainers and managers of Liberty Mtn Resort or Snow Time Inc.
Chris, come to some clinics.

LOL, Brad, agreed, and I am going for my lvl 1 exam this dec. I was just asking for ideas, and trying to get input on what is wrong with mine. Gonna be joining ya in a few clinics once we open up, lookin forward to riding with you.

Swiat

Good, you’ll have to show me how you stop on vertical wall.

Chris, I like this topic. I have never taken a steep clinic but have some ideas on teaching them.
first I pick a medium pitch trail and have the student heel side slip while flexing and extending. Flexing absorbes the pressure while extending puts pressure. Then in the flexed position, with there lead foot I have them start the turn by pushing there toes down the hill. like pushing the gas in a car. They pull back while extending. then I have them point there toe and knee down the hill. followed by hip and shoulder. I have them do abunch of these fake out turns to really get the turn initiation down. That twisting of the board. Then I have the student do turns with no turn shape just flexion/extension/rotation. whatch there shoulders to see if they are aligned with the terrain when the board is facing straight down.
When I think of myself doing steeps it’s like learning how to snow board allover. the movement are the same just more intense. The more of the mountain we take on, the more the mountain demands from us.
After that instead of going right to the steeps go to the pipe if you have one. have the student 50/50 the wall and drop in. they will be able to choose there comfort level there and if they fall there not gonna slide to the bottom of the trail.  Once they get hang of that. Hit the steeps and rip it up!

Chris,

using flatspins as a base for exercises and skill development has worked well for my own steeps riding and also w/ clinic participants. 

Jb

I agree with using sideslips as a good way to help with steeper terrain, I’ve riden the christmas tree bowl at Steamboat Springs Colorado, and thats some wicked terrain. Another aspect of this conversation should be powder versus packed. In both conditions I believe it is easy to use rotation to get into a sideslip, but I don’t think sideslipping in powder is a good idea. Thoughts?

About the flatspins, that is a good way to teach opposite edge angles right? What I mean by that is you engage both edges of the snowboard at the same time on opposite ends, like nose/toe edge, and at the same time tail/heel edge. Great for making sharper turns but its easy to accidentally go into switch if not careful using that method, as I’ve seen. But I can see how slight adjustments with opposite edge angles could really help someone control steeper terrain.

Swiat

I usually have students use a shoulder alignment focus while they’re doing the flat spin exercises which keeps things under control and also better mimics what they’d be doing while riding.

Jb

Steeps is not about using lots of pressure nor lots of edge (which will quickly lead to lots of pressure). You’ll want to play with transitions that are soft (low edge/low pressure), aim for steering the board through the arc skidding as much as you dare and carving as much as you can while absorbing all possible energy into your body.  Big rotational moves or really anything that puts you into a side slipping position should be avoided. Getting out of a side slip in steep terrain is NOT easy.

Look into steeps camps. Jackson, Snowbird, or Taos.

Well, the more speed that is involved the less pressure is needed to create a change in direction. Happy Thanksgiving, off to breakfast.

Swiat

Christopher - 26 November 2009 06:16 AM

Well, the more speed that is involved the less pressure is needed to create a change in direction.

Swiat

Fun questions:

Does the pressure create the desired direction change? 

Or is pressure the result of changing direction?

Jb

I’d go with edge angle and a board being urged to change direction or decrease speed that creates pressure.  but i drink a lot…

J. thanks for the reply.  I’m wondering though how does the fact that you ‘drink a lot’ have any relevance to your comment or the questions?  Should I completely disregard your answer because you are drunk at the keyboard?  Let me know if you would like to ‘not drink a lot’ and I can refer you to a helpful organization.

All silliness aside, I think you’ve answered that the pressure is the result, not the cause. 

Jb

Swait,
I have used the following progression with good results.

Start on some easier terrain, greens or maybe easier blue runs. At the top of the trail in some flat area have them strap in with both feet and get balanced over the board and slowly start to shift thier wieght(Pressure)from center (balanced, stacked over your board) towards the tail of the board and then back to center. Think of the way you would start an ollie but do not load up the tail and pop. Just go from center to tail and back to center. This exercise is to get the rider to get the feeling of 2 things, 1) Distributing the pressure fore and aft or centered to tail (This is the what) and 2) Using independant flexion and extion of the front leg and the back leg (this is the how). When shifting, slidind the board from the centered balanced position you must extend/straighten your front leg and flex/collaps your back leg. Let them play with for a few minutes to get the concept and feeling down. Although at this point you are using a flat board the same concept will be applied while on an edge.

Making traverses across the hill set up the task to do this fore and aft presuure move 2 or 3 times while traversing across the trail on both toe and heel edges. This introduces the move while edging. Try to pick a wider trail if possible and the easier green or blue terrain will allow them not to build up to much speed. Have them initiate the turns by twist with thier front foot and once the board starts to cross the fall line create equal pressure along the entire edge by using your back foot to evenly distribute the pressure under your feet.Have them play with this until they seem comfortable with the move.

Set up the next task to make medium radious turns and put the 2 previous tasks together with with the focus in this task to finish the turns as the board crosses the fall line with the fore and aft pressure move. By finishing the turn with this move with pressure on the tail end of the board at the end of the turn and this becomes your speed control. Have them play with different turn shapes and vary how much to bring the board accross the fall line or even slightly uphill to see the effect on speed control this has.

Slowly increase the terrain pitch as the student becomes more comfortable with the move and take it to the steeps.

This thread has many ideas and no idea is better than any other idea. I look at it more as one concept can be more efficient or less efficient than another depending on the terrain and conditions. This concept focuses on pressure (Board performance) both fore and aft, down (decamber) and up (unwieght) and flex/extend of the ankles and knees (body movement)

I would recommend no matter what you try do it yourself and make sure you own it before you teach it.

Pat

Pat - 28 November 2009 12:52 PM

Swait,
By finishing the turn with this move with pressure on the tail end of the board at the end of the turn and this becomes your speed control.

Pat, how does applying pressure to the tail produce speed control?  I see that producing different results.  In my experience if increase pressure on an edged board at the finish of a turn, the board accelerates or launches (like your ollie example) which would not seem to be the desired result in the steeps.  Just need further description… 

thanks!