PSIA-AASI

Clarification, best = most efficient

It seems to me the best way to spin would be to use the edge and almost carve off the jump, I feel that skidding the turn as you’re leaving the lip causes the rider to lose speed as well as lose energy in generating the spin.

Am I totally off or what?

Also when adding flips to the maneuver should the edge angle be lessening to provide more of a platform for the rider to launch off?

Spin Off of a Jump***

very very slight carve either heel for a front side spin, or toe for a back side spin.
For a 180 no pre spin required the spin will be initiated through the body in the air.
For 360’s 540’s 720’s ect.. pre wind your body either toward the toes and tail for front side or heel and tail for backside. Amount of prewind in the body before leaving the lip of the jump depends on amount of rotation you want.
note 360’s do not require alot of pre winding in the body. very little will get a full 360

Hope this helps

Thomas - 29 December 2009 01:10 PM

very very slight carve either heel for a front side spin, or toe for a back side spin.
For a 180 no pre spin required the spin will be initiated through the body in the air.
For 360’s 540’s 720’s ect.. pre wind your body either toward the toes and tail for front side or heel and tail for backside. Amount of prewind in the body before leaving the lip of the jump depends on amount of rotation you want.
note 360’s do not require alot of pre winding in the body. very little will get a full 360

Hope this helps

very good bravo. As a long time park rider i would just add. run in speed also helps for the bigger spins. I find it easier to rotate a bigger spin with more rotations while going faster, as opposed to moving slower.

That is a decent way to do it on small to median features but once you start getting on larger to Pro features that require more speed, or start riding park on slushy spring days you are going to find youself shorting most of the time.  Learn to run you edge out.  The older school to thought was to really work the precarve or washing the edge… watch most older videos.  But with all the new jumps getting bigger and poppier it makes it highly inconsistent if you iniciate your spins with a skid. Prewinding is good, Torgstin Hormogo is a great example of this.  It is slight and he explodes off the lip fully utilizing the snap of his board and pop of the jump.  Also using compilmentaly grabs to the will help the rotation continue. But learn to run the edge out and discover a whole new game!!

Thomas - 29 December 2009 01:10 PM

very very slight carve either heel for a front side spin, or toe for a back side spin.
For a 180 no pre spin required the spin will be initiated through the body in the air.
For 360’s 540’s 720’s ect.. pre wind your body either toward the toes and tail for front side or heel and tail for backside. Amount of prewind in the body before leaving the lip of the jump depends on amount of rotation you want.
note 360’s do not require alot of pre winding in the body. very little will get a full 360

Hope this helps

I agree that pre wind is super important.  But I disagree that the amount of prewind in the body determines the amount of rotation desired.  I believe that the intensity of unwind (i.e. how hard you unwind) at the lip is what causes more rotation.  So as to say that the harder you throw your core at the lip, the more rotation you will achieve.  So for arguements sake, if “X” is the amount of unwind needed (in this case, “X” is just a random measure of exertion or force) to create a 180 aired rotation, then you need “2X” to create a 360 off of the same lip.  Speed will also need to be added as higher end spins are desired, but for now, we are just discussing this unwind issue.  I also agree with a later statement that “edge scrubbing” at the lip is a super bad habit.  This is seen a lot when people spin frontside off of jumps.  The problem with this technique is that it creates a very invariable speed issue off of the lip, and will eventually result in a knuckle out.  In my opinion, the best method to teach or coach is proper edge initiation set up by proper set up turns as approaching the jump.  This will lead to no speed loss, and will generate the most consistent approaches. 

Here is an example:

(rider is riding regular footed)

        I                   I
        I                   I
        I   JUMP         I
        IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
                        R (taking off of a heel carve-not a heel skid)
                        R
                      R
                    R (at this point should be transitioning to heel edge)
                  R
                R
                R   (toe carve)
                R (toe carve)
                  R
                    R
                      R (approach for a frontside spin regular footed)

This is a super rough computer mock up of approach angle ideas.  This approach I drew will consistently keep your momentum moving in a very direct line (similar to the fall line) towards the landing.  By carving during the approach, you can consistently match your speed on future attempts by starting in the same spot for your drop in. 

This is my .02 of a dollar

-Brian D.
Peek’n Peak Resort

I am not sure if I buy into jumping off your heels. Nobody slam dunks by jumping off their heels. And I think a rider with spinning skills can pop and spin off heels or toes or flat and go either way, in fact you should learn it every which way before you add another 180 or you will end up looking like a ballerina. Heel AND Toe takeoff creates a different look and style as well as preparing you to throw down out in the real world with the guys who don’t need expensive snowgromming machines to do tricks.

The Core muscles are the big factor and rebound is a close second.

or maybe I am full of it, what do you think?

One idea is using the heels to learn tricks spinning frontside (either regular or switch) but jumping off your toes really allows for the rider to explode with their calf muscles (jump up in the air barefoot, what is the last part of the foot you explode off?).

It can also come into effect with certain rail tricks.

Spinning hardway onto a rail

(hardway = (regular rider) approaching from the frontside of the rail, and spins frontside onto the feature.) hardway 270

                                ||
                                TTT||TTTT
                        T T   T   ||
                      TT   TT     ||
                        T T   T     ||
  (frontside of the               T     ||    (backside of the rail for a regular rider)
        rail for a               T   ||
      regular rider)              T   ||
                              T   ||
                            ————————
                            |  R       |
                            |  R       |
                            |  R         |
                            | R         |
                            |  R       |
                            |  R       |
                            |    R     |
                            |          |

And jumping off the toes frontside does still work, but jumping from the toes approaching fromm the backside of the rail and jumping off the toes is a lot of use in the ankle joint. If you jump from the heels spinning frontside from the backside of the rail seems like spinning from the heels would be easier.

Also, i’d imagine you’d need to flip when spinning backside off the heels on a jump but im not sure.

disclaimer: this is all home grown…sooo please correct me immediately if you’re comin up with an easier way.

Mark - 27 January 2010 07:13 PM

Also, i’d imagine you’d need to flip when spinning backside off the heels on a jump but im not sure.

 

I spin backside off my heels all the time, and there is no need to flip (although doing so looks really cool). It’s a unique/unusual way of spinning backside, just like spinning frontside off of your toes is unique.  I call these type of spins alley-oop.

These type of spins also prove that edging and carving are not needed to initiate a spin, since you’re spinning the opposite direction of your approach carve.

A friend of mine actually cannot spin frontside 540’s off of his heels (the most common way to learn them), but can do them with ease from his toes (considered the “hard way”).  He gets more pop, and a more solid platform to unwind from when he is on his toes because he can use his calf muscles, as stated above.

Prewinding on the approach and unwinding at the lip is the most efficient way of generating a spin.  A strong core and a solid edge to jump from make this much easier. 

That’s not to say that initiating a spin with a carve or washout it totally wrong.  This method has it’s place, but it’s not on medium to big jumps.  Like mentioned above, this method kills speed, and adds several unpredictable variables into the equation (like off-axis cork).  I use a pre-wash/carve to initiate flatland 540’s and 720’s.  Since I’m not way up in the air, or trying to clear a knuckle, a little cork or speed loss is no big deal.  By combining both board initiation (precarve) and body initiation (prewinding), I’m able to spin very fast with very little air, at the expense of a little chaos!  I teach a spin clinic using these concepts, and it works well.

So can anyone answer this:  Are “heelside-backside” and “toeside-frontside” spins technically “Alley-oops”?

All are valid points for jumping, but remember, everyone has their own style. So if its front side off your toes, heels or flat base; As long as your technique in the Approach, takeoff, maneuver, and landing are solid then there shouldn’t be any issues.